E39 540i 6-Speed?

"deprecated account" (savethei4s)
11/16/2016 at 13:07 • Filed to: None

So I found a clean-looking one (wheels excepted, obviously) for $4200, and I really wanna save it from becoming more ghetto-fied. Also, it’s a ‘97, so pre-VANOS. Thoughts? Pitfalls? Experience? Your help is appreciated. UPDATE: Holy crap, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

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DISCUSSION (36)

E90M3 > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 13:02

I didn’t realize they took until 1998 to add VANOS to the M62. I know it was offered on the M50 starting in 1992, at least in the states. I pulled a cam from an M50 to make a lamp out and cannot remember what year (it was either a 91 or a 92) 525i it came out of.

djmt1 > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 13:04

In the UK, manual 540i are starting to go for more than actual M5s. What a world we live in.

deprecated account > djmt1
11/16/2016 at 13:04

That’s honestly pretty surprising.

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > E90M3
11/16/2016 at 13:05

Pre vanos m62s are easy to tell by the round plug maf connector, vanos m62tus use an ellipsoid connector and is common with vw mafs.

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 13:06

Word of advise. Memphis/Shelby County have no inspections. Take from that what you will but i would not buy something like this from around there. The implication that maintenance is not as important in Memphis as looking good.

/wasraisedthere

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 13:07

Get rid of the tacky headlights, awn riyumz are horrible for the ride. Just check for oil leaks at the mileage. A non vanos m62 won’t need the timing guides at mileage.

E90M3 > unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins)
11/16/2016 at 13:07

I cannot remember how any of the internals of the engine looked, it’s been over 5 years now.

dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 13:07

Interior looks dirty but in good shape.

The wheels are cancer but the rest of body seems in good shape.

Pre-VANOS is always good.

Manual with the V8 isn’t common.

I know very little about Bimmers, but this seems like a nice one, but tread carefully, as those mods could denote a driver who doesn’t appreciate the car beyond the badge.

deprecated account > unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins)
11/16/2016 at 13:08

Oh yeah. Those headlights would be gone real quick.

S65 > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 13:21

That 240SX is gonna need alot of work, what I mean is it looks like a deathtrap, be careful

deprecated account > S65
11/16/2016 at 13:22

Yeah, and no A/C would NOT be fun in Southern summer.

S65 > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 13:25

Try this one, ask if it comes with the cat

http://bham.craigslist.org/cto/5869702039.html

Tripper > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 13:37

Any place nearby where you can get a good PPI? The car looks to be in great shape, but the wheels say “I have no idea what I’m doing, I also tailgate and smoke cheap cigars.” Even without the wheels, having owned an abused BMW V8 that I purchased without a PPI; I would strongly recommend getting one.

diplodicus > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 13:49

Do it. I have one that has many things that don’t work as they should.

And I still don’t regret it.

deprecated account > S65
11/16/2016 at 13:53

I’m a dog guy.

deprecated account > Tripper
11/16/2016 at 13:53

I’m not entirely convinced it isn’t a scam, but if it isn’t then absolutely I will.

S65 > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 13:54

This is fine

Tripper > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 13:55

Yea a fishy description for sure. I hope it’s not because it looks like a really nice car that just needs a new set of wheels.

Klaus Schmoll > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 14:00

My mum has a 2002 E39 530d manual wagon. Great car, which has been in the family since 2005, and always was maintained at BMW shops, but this year pretty much everything that can go wrong on a car went wrong (it has about the same mileage). Clutch and flywheel exploded, nav and audio died, brake lines, power steering lines, power steering pump, rear wiper died, some untraceable current which sometimes drains the battery over night, plus other stuff I can’t remember right now. Over € 5k in repairs only this year, and it’s only November. E39s are great cars but at some point in their life your are in for a new catastrophe every other month.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 14:22

Some common E39 issues to look for:

Inside

Missing pixels on the cluster/radio/climate control. If you can live without, then a good negotiating point, otherwise expensive. Window motors and regulators are common and frequent failures. The sunroof rails will wear, which will eventually causes issues getting to the sunroof to fully close. Make sure everything works. Open the sunroof and make sure it actually closes fully.

Outside

The many, many pieces of rubber and plastic seals and weather stripping on the exterior seem to have been developed for a northern Continental European climate, as opposed to a much warmer and sunnier North American climate. They dry out, crack and then disintegrate with age. Expect the windshield cowl to be disintegrated. Some of these pieces are expensive, but many are not. Ebay is your preferred soft part supplier, with patience and attention to detail the name of the game for replacing them.

Underneath

Suspension bushings are regular maintenance items on these cars, and is usually accomplished in the form of complete control arm replacements. Upper rear control arms and front radius arms are often toasted by 70 or 80k, so this car would hopefully be on its 2nd set of replacement control arms. While the control arms are not unreasonably priced individually, they add up, and especially if you’re paying someone labor for more than just the alignment at the end of the job. An E39 is car to really know the condition of the running gear before buying. If you’re not sure, paying an alignment shop a half hour of labor for an undercar PPI would be a good investment. Brakes are not tremendously long lived on these cars, but parts costs are not unreasonable.

Under the hood

Oil leaks and cooling system maintenance are the things to look for. Valve covers, main seals, power steering reservoir and oil filter housing to block gaskets are all common oil leaks. None of the parts are particularly expensive for a big boy car, but some of the repairs are a lot more time consuming than others.

The cooling system is the key to E39 longevity and reliability. The plastic in the cooling system degrades and becomes brittle, which leads to catastrophic cooling system failures. Best practice is to replace the complete cooling (radiator, expansion tank, water pump and pulley, hoses, thermostat housing and fan clutch) every 60-80k. You’ll want maintenance records of how fresh all these components are, or you’ll want to plan on doing them soon. Figure $400-$600 for all the parts and a Saturday of your time.

Can I turn wrenches on it?

That depends. If you know your way around the underside of a car, and can follow instructions explicitly, then you’ll have no problems. You will end up acquiring a variety of special tools, and you really, really need the factory manual. The E39 service manual is one of the larger ones I’ve had. The instructions for most things are very detailed, and there is almost always a method to the madness. Despite what it looks like, there is almost always a way to access fasteners and remove components. Sometimes the factory manual called for things to be done in an order that didn’t always seem logical. I learned there was almost always a reason that would become apparent later on for the seemingly illogical order of operations. You end up best off just doing exactly what the Germans tell you to do.

Should I buy one

That also depends. I would not touch one without a pretty complete service history, and I would ensure that expectations match with reality of owning a complex and aging German car. An E39 is a wonderful thing, but it is not a cheap thing. They are not a drive it everyday and do little more than change the oil every once in awhile ownership experience. Even the routine stuff might cost more than you imagine. That 5-quart bottle of mobil one ow-40 at Walmart? You’ll need two of those at each oil change. You’ll also need two air filters and two cabin air filters. This kind of thing is common on the car, and it will have things that break or wear out.

An E39 is also old enough that you will mail order most every part for the car, so having one as an only option for getting to work in the morning may not be a great idea. If you have to have a part today, your only option if often the BMW dealer. The BMW dealer will bend you over, they will not use lube, and they probably won’t have the part in stock anyway since there cars are all 20+ years old. The big German car parts sellers do have extensive parts support for these cars, and prices are often not as expensive as you might expect. For OEM parts, Ebay is a surprisingly good source of parts at great prices. Currently, there are some re-sellers who seem to have bought up large quantities of the remaining OEM BMW parts supply and are selling them far cheaper than you might imagine. If you buy a good E39, and can expect and accept that you have to pay to play, then they are a fantastic automobile. I had one. It was a daily driver, and it was a fantastic machine. I did all the upkeep on the car myself, but I also used to turn wrenches for a living. I also never expected it to be cheap, so I wasn’t disappointed.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 15:05

Tread carefully and don’t be afraid to walk away. Before I bought my 330i I found a manual X5. Looked great in photos. Test drove it and couldn’t be more insulted by the price. It was the most worn out POS I’ve ever driven. door panels weren’t even attached properly. Car was stalling all over. Linkage was a crap shoot. The e39s have their quarks and the V8s are prone to a few extra problems. Do your homework, check it out, and get a PPI before you buy a polished turd.

Chasaboo > Klaus Schmoll
11/16/2016 at 15:49

Exactly, the ticking time bomb syndrome. When a BMW lets go, it can really let go. A dude at work has a 7 series that he’s been taking good care of for awhile. It’s bleeding his bank account dry now.

Klaus Schmoll > Chasaboo
11/16/2016 at 16:07

Exactly. It was fun for a lot of years, but I would have let it go about a year or two ago (around the time it left her stranded for the second time). But she loves it, and it’s soooo beautiful, and new ones are expensive and look like shit and all that crap. She’s a doctor, I tried to explain what is happening right now using the term “multiple-organ-failure” which is a COD.

I referred them to a good indie mechanic who specialises in BMWs of that vintage and offers fair prices but even he can’t keep on top of EVERYTHING at that stage and the next time that she will have to wait for roadside assistance can’t be far away.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
11/16/2016 at 16:16

On the V8's, I think intake manifold gaskets are also a thing to know about. I recall reading that it is a labor intensive (but DIYible) job that all of them will need at some point, kinda like VANOS seals on the later E39s.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 16:17

Its prone to its oil pump nuts backing off. My father had the same engine in his ‘97 740iL and had to retorque the nut 2 or 3 times. Oddly it showed up by triggering the knock sensor. No idea how a loose oil pump nut triggers the knock sensor, but every time it threw a code indicating the knock sensor was being triggered he dropped the oil pan and the nut would be loose again. Tighten up the nut and the knock sensor stops yelling. Other than that, it was rock solid, he got the car up to 350k miles before he sold it and it had just started burning oil.

Shift24 > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
11/16/2016 at 16:59

I daily my 540i Msport with almost 150K on it and 100% agree do not have it as your only car. Had a plastic T fitting off the water pump go last week that left it stranded at my sister’s place waiting on the $14 part to be shipped from Rockauto. Luckily i have 2 others that can be dailies and one if I absolutely have to. Now I will say it was fairly easy to change with the amount of shit in the way. I only used 4 tools the whole time. And wait where is the second air filter? I know two cabins but two air filters?

But i think you would agree on this one to pass. Sketchy rims, head lights, and description makes me wonder if the owner has actually done any maintenance. Which e39s can bit you if you dont keep up with them. Plus Timing Chain Guides are coming up soon for the car if he hasnt done them

Joel Ness > deprecated account
11/16/2016 at 19:01

For the love of god make sure it doesn’t have issues with the valley pan or timing chain guides. It’s a super duper pain to fix yourself and fucking expensive to have any shop do (including indies). Other than that it’s a great car.

deprecated account > Joel Ness
11/16/2016 at 19:15

The non-VANOS cars won’t have the timing chain guide problems though, right?

torque > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
11/16/2016 at 20:53

That Sir (above) is one hell of a (FP worthy) write up on th E39.

BMWs like the E39 remind me of more reliable*, expensive and luxurious Alfas

*Only if properly maintained, though if properly maintained, will continue to serve you well, unlike an Alfa which can blow up at anytime regardless of the preventative care taken

Joel Ness > deprecated account
11/17/2016 at 06:20

As far as I know the engine architecture is the same on most of the engine, including timing.

Joel Ness > deprecated account
11/17/2016 at 06:22

And this about the mileage when it starts to go

Joel Ness > deprecated account
11/17/2016 at 06:24

Maybe I’m being picky, the wheels and headlights look a bit cheesy. It looks like the previous owner(s) tried and failed to update the exterior. Legit Hella headlights aren’t cheap and the double parallel wheels on the msport models aren’t cheap either.

Joel Ness > deprecated account
11/17/2016 at 06:32

A quick search of Autotrader got me this: http://m.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=441430363

I would trust this a little bit more since it’s a private party that claims to have taken care of it. New clutch is a nice touch.

deprecated account > Joel Ness
11/17/2016 at 09:11

No longer listed. Shit.

Joel Ness > deprecated account
11/17/2016 at 09:18

Take your time with this one. If you can afford it, look for 02 and 03 versions with the msport option. I can’t stress this enough. I have an 02 msport 6 speed with issues. If I took my time I could have probably found a better one. Look for service records regarding the timing chain guide, not the tensioner (that’s an easy part to replace) a low miles example might go for 7000 but it’ll be worth it.

deprecated account > Joel Ness
11/17/2016 at 11:20

Not gonna happen. For one, I definitely prefer to avoid the VANOS hassle, but mainly, my budget is only $5000. I’d love an M-Sport, but at the same time, I like the sleeper factor of a non-M-Sport.